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Fantasy => General Discussion => Topic started by: DavidJHowe on July 09, 2010, 09:09:26 AM

Title: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: DavidJHowe on July 09, 2010, 09:09:26 AM
Hi Folks

This is a note of warning to anyone thinking of ordering books from or having any dealings with a chap who calls himself 'Dave Boyer' or 'Iron Dave' or 'Dan Byron' or 'Dave Byron' or perhaps even 'Jack Burnett'. He seems to have a variety of names.

As people who know me will hopefully realise, I'm easygoing and fair in all my dealings, and to come across someone like this is somewhat strange for me. It's the first time in 30 odd years working in the genre that this has happened. Perhaps I've been lucky.

Dave Boyer contacted my partner, author Sam Stone, about a short story for an anthology he wasd doing called DEADLY DOLLS. As part of the initial discussion, he explained that there was no payment, but that Sam would get a comp copy.

So the book was apparently published last year (2009), and I checked with Ellen Datlow, who Boyer claimed had been sent a copy, and indeed she said she had received it.

So Sam contacted Dave and asked for her comp copy, but got no reply. 

I therefore thought I would order one, and so, in December last year, sent off $22.90 in payment via paypal on Friday 11 December.

Then the correspondence started:

Quote
At 16:03 04/02/2010, David Howe wrote:
Hi
I'm chasing up my order for the book DEADLY DOLLS, placed on 11th December, which has yet to arrive.
Please can you let me know the status of my order.
Thanks
David J Howe

***

No reply to this, so I tried again ... still no reply, so I sent:

***

Quote
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:35 AM, David Howe wrote:
Dear Sirs
I have now emailed twice about my book order with no reply.
Please can you get back to me within 7 days or I will be taking this further.
Thanks
David J Howe


***

Then I got a reply from Boyer:

***

Quote
At 12:31 12/02/2010, David Boyer wrote:
Sorry I didnt find your emails until now, but I have been working on a new manuscript and havent been checking my emails a lot until yesterday. Your friend, Sam Stone, told me of your dilemma with your book, and I can assure you that it was ordered, but apparently lost in transit. This happens at times when I have shipped to the UK. A friend of mine who lives in the UK, actress Ingrid Pitt,  told me last year, after she hadnt recieved a get-well card from me, that at times, people in the UK ''pinch'' US mail for the postage stamps and labels. What value this would have for them I can't figure out, but it DOES happen. What I will do is, have the book ordered and sent to MY postal address, and send it to you via Priority Airmail box. OK?
I will order one today, and ship it out next week, and pay for it myself.
David

***

I replied:

***

Quote
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:36 AM, David Howe wrote:
Hi David
Thanks so much for your note.
I look forward to receiving the copy.
If you're able to send Sam her contributor copy at the same time it would be appreciated and would save you a little shipping cost. She let you have her contribution for no fee on the understanding that she would receive a contributor copy, and it's somewhat concerning that you don't seem to want to send her what you agreed you would.
Regards
David


***

Boyer replied:

***

Quote
At 14:45 12/02/2010, David Boyer wrote:
Hmm...you are right, that would be a cost-effective way of sending both copies, wouldnt it? I shall do just that!
Thanks!


***

And so I waited ... and waited ... and waited ...

And eventually I emailed him again:

***

Quote
At 20:53 29/05/2010, David Howe wrote:
Mr Boyer ...

4 months on and I still have received no books from you.

Looking forward to hearing from you as to why this might be.

Yours

David J Howe

***

No reply was received to this, so I emailed again:

***

Quote
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:45 PM, David Howe wrote:
Dear Mr Boyer

Still no books and no response to my note.

Final chance to come up with the goods before I take this further.

Looking forward to hearing from you

David J Howe

***

This got a reply:

***

Quote
At 22:17 07/07/2010, David Boyer wrote:
I'm sorry for your trouble, but as I've stated before - to two other people who have ordered books from me that live in the UK - I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for what happens to the books after they have been ordered, and shipped. I have had NO TROUBLE at all shipping to people in the USA.
What you need to do is contact your own Postal Service.. By what I have understood from a friend of mine who lives over there, sometimes packages are ''pinched'' for US stamps and labels.


***

I replied:

***

Quote
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:41 AM, David Howe wrote:
Dear Mr Boyer

I cannot believe your response.  I run a small press in the UK and we take every effort to ensure that our customers are happy, and always resupply books in the event of loss by the postal service.

It is YOUR responsibility as the seller to ensure that I receive what I have paid for.

To suggest that I run around and try and locate packages which you claim you sent is the most rude and unbelievable thing I've ever been told in all my years of dealing with companies.  You are washing your hands of the whole business and show contempt for your customers.

Please will you refund my money - $22.90 - to me immediately.  It can be PayPal sent to david@howeswho.co.uk

Yours

David J Howe

***

To this I received this incredible reply:

***

Quote
At 12:28 08/07/2010, David Boyer wrote:
To: David Howe

First of all, I am a VERY small press, and now, am even out of business due to the present economy over here. I cannot afford to chase down books that were ordered and shipped in good faith, then told they did not arrive. As much as I'd like to be able to do this, I cannot afford it. Your books were ordered, and shipped from my printer.
I am not trying to avoid my responsibility; I am just letting you know that at this point in time, I cannot do anything about it. I recently had an in-home accident, which left me with two broken ribs, a fractured ankle, and a head concussion. I have been out of work since June 3rd, and I have no money in my Paypal account accept for 80 cents.
IN addition, I do not like being made to sound like a thief, or an asshole. I am not, and I dont like your ''underlying'' implications. This email you sent me is no way to get someone like me to cooperate with you, either. I'd learn to control my tongue, if I were you. I am sick of folks from the UK having their package sent to the wrong address {happened to me five times now} and then blaming ME for it, and wanting a refund. How do I know if you got the book or not? You live 5,000 miles away, for God's sake.
Once again, I am NOT trying to avoid you, ot any responsibility, but I cannot do anything about this at this point in time. In the meantime, do NOT send me any more emails like this, or I will wash my hands of YOU.

***

At this point I informed Mr Boyer that I would be warning people of him and his books.

He replied with ... and the 'conversation' continued for a couple more emails:

***

Quote
At 13:24 08/07/2010, David Boyer wrote:
To: David Howe
If you slander me or harrass me in any way, shape, or form, I will take LEGAL ACTION against you. I'd watch my step, unless you want to end up traveling to the USA to go to COURT.


***

Quote
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:28 AM, David Howe wrote:
Thanks. I will add this to the message I am composing.
***

Quote
At 13:32 08/07/2010, David Boyer wrote:
Wonderful, I look forward to it. And be warned, do NOT email me again.


***

Quote
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:33 AM, David Howe wrote:
This is actually hilarious.

You have my money. You refuse to refund me. You claim books have gone missing in the post and refuse to re-send them ... and you then threaten me?

Couple of links for you:

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewnews.asp?id=28921
http://www.amazon.com/Haunting-Sam-Cabot-Jack-Burnett/dp/0557065682/ref=cm_pdp_rev_itm_title_1

Have a nice day

David
***

Quote
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:41:30
To: David Howe

You are a very unstable person.


***

Quote
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:46:28
To: David Howe

You know...it is really a very strange coincidence that ALL of the folks who had a complaint with me are from OUTSIDE THE USA isnt it? I havent had very many complaints at all from folks in the US, and what ones I did have were resolved quickly and peacefully.
Your best bet would be to buzz off. You will be reimbursed when I have the money. And NOT until then.

***

Please be advised that Mr Boyer (or whatever he calls himself) does not appear to honour any payments he receives for books, and has refused to refund me. He has not sent Sam any copies of the book, or even apologised to her for the same.  So Mr Boyer is taking customers' money and not supplying goods, and taking stories and contributions from authors in good faith and not then providing contributors copies.

When challenged he becomes rude and offensive and blames anyone and anything for the failures except himself.


I leave it to readers to decide who is in the right here, and whether or not to spread the word about Mr Boyer to any authors or fans of the genre that you might know about.

This is to my mind disgraceful behavior and potentially brings the whole small press community and genre into disrepute.


In googling, it looks like others have apparently fallen foul of this man: http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewnews.asp?id=28921

It also seems that he has been allegedly plagiarising others' work:  http://www.amazon.com/Haunting-Sam-Cabot-Jack-Burnett/dp/0557065682/ref=cm_pdp_rev_itm_title_1
So watch out for anything by 'Jack Burnett' ...

The authors' resource Preditors and Editors thankfully has NVH Books listed as 'Not Recommended': http://pred-ed.com/pebn.htm


Boyer can be found online at the following locations (he seems to run numerous sites with several names and they change from time to time):

http://authordavidboyer.webs.com
http://nvhmag1.webs.com
http://www.freewebs.com/nvhbooks/
http://wickedkittyproductions.webs.com/
http://fictionprodigies.webs.com
http://www.freewebs.com/nvhmag1/
http://www.freewebs.com/nvfinprint/

He is also 'Into the Light Productions' and is on just about every social network site invented.

Best

David J Howe
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: David A. Riley on July 09, 2010, 09:44:45 AM
The man sounds a bit of a scoundrel. We have been selling books on the internet for nearly 10 years now and I've been buying things that way for even longer. The number of items lost in the post is incredibly small, whatever country we've dealt with. And I have never heard of anyone stealing post in the UK for US stamps. I've never heard of that as an excuse for books going missing either. It would be hilarious except that its his excuse for why you haven't received your books. The man's either a fool, a thief or both from what I can read betweenb the lines in his scurrilous replies to you. I'll certainly avoid anyone with those names if I ever come across them.

David
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: Shaun Jeffrey on July 09, 2010, 03:41:56 PM
Sadly, there are a few people like your Mr Boyer/Dave/Dan/Byron around.
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: Degsy on July 10, 2010, 12:09:55 AM
This happens all the time - especially with small presses that turn out to be one guy in his bedroom still-living-with-his-parents  jobs.

I get really pissed-off with the self-pitying whingers and the 'I'll ship your book tomorrow' excuse-mongers. If you're going to set yourself up as a press, either act 100% professional or get out of the way of the real craftsmen.

All this does is increase my admiration for the true unsung heros out there.
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: David A. Riley on July 10, 2010, 10:40:11 AM
This happens all the time - especially with small presses that turn out to be one guy in his bedroom still-living-with-his-parents  jobs.

I get really pissed-off with the self-pitying whingers and the 'I'll ship your book tomorrow' excuse-mongers. If you're going to set yourself up as a press, either act 100% professional or get out of the way of the real craftsmen.

All this does is increase my admiration for the true unsung heros out there.

I can't say I have ever come across anything as extreme as the one described by David Howe. In fact, unless I have been lucky, all of my own experiences with the small press have been excellent.

David
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: Degsy on July 11, 2010, 12:31:48 PM
Probably just a run of bad luck on my part.

I should add that my own personal bad experiences this year (i.e. not-shipping orders until several email enquiries had been sent, shipping the wrong book, signed copies not signed, or in some cases not shipping at all) were all from presses outside the UK that I wasn't familiar with.

Caveat Emptor as they say.

Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: B on October 06, 2010, 08:00:47 PM
If you know David Boyer/David Byron/Iron Dave, you might want to update your list of names he uses and read about his most recent publicity.

The Shocklines forums is blowing up over him, and not is a good way.  http://shocklinesforum.yuku.com/topic/16113/t/New-on-line-horror-magazine-premiering-on-October-31st-2010.html

It all began with this blog post:
http://thewriterandthewhitecat.blogspot.com/2010/10/pin-tail-on-this-plagiarist.html

He was scheduled to be a book signing on the 10th at the Mockingbird Book Emporium.  http://mockingbirdbookemporium.blogspot.com/

I hope you take a moment to check this out.

Other blogs following this: http://therustynail.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/electrocute-this-clown/#comments   
                                         http://charlesgramlich.blogspot.com/2010/10/case-of-plagiarism.html
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: John Forth on October 06, 2010, 08:18:31 PM
On a serious note, has anyone told the Post Office that Ingrid Pitt is slandering them in this way.  ;D
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: DavidJHowe on October 06, 2010, 09:13:01 PM
Another pile of stuff about this man.  Seems he's now plagiarising Lisa Morton amongst others.

Here's some links to  threads about it all.

Basically - if you're thinking of submitting to any of his projects, or, indeed, having anything to do with this man ... be warned!

The Shocklines forums is blowing up over him, and not in a good way. 
http://shocklinesforum.yuku.com/topic/16113/t/New-on-line-horror-magazine-premiering-on-October-31st-2010.html

It all began with this blog post:
http://thewriterandthewhitecat.blogspot.com/2010/10/pin-tail-on-this-plagiarist.html

He was scheduled to be a book signing on the 10th at the Mockingbird Book Emporium. 
http://mockingbirdbookemporium.blogspot.com/

Other blogs following this:
http://therustynail.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/electrocute-this-clown/#comments     
http://charlesgramlich.blogspot.com/2010/10/case-of-plagiarism.html

David
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: DavidJHowe on October 12, 2010, 03:01:52 PM
Just found another apparent identity for Dave Byron ...

Dave Diotalevi ... 

He has a Myspace account here:
http://www.myspace.com/davediotalevi?actp=n%2b0prKAebczfG13CmB%2fL170xxzjSK8k%2f19igSi%2f1c3uQLTXTYANJMky0qJd%2b9I2kGTDHP7c8RX%2fDq%2fIaC2QRghTPYtr4FSQf%2f2YTR29fbjeherznwXW0pMeB7%2fVYeN7kR%2fYROWXtdYJ458rYETH0HVUaAA4WYyxn%2b2NJMKwUFN%2fo0L21lUDwZMj%2bcjpu3v3Asu1PRBCHJ83AliJwMa0UiomoYk%2b1a7HNaBLg4UQeAwOcEV%2fneUwrYPeV2Wa0w5Zb

This used to be the 'Iron Dave' Myspace page and it has now been changed to be the page for this new 'Dave' author. Sam also recognises the photo on the page as one that Dave used on the 'Iron Dave' page ...
 
And some new websites relating to this apparent new identity ...

http://wheresmyx.blogspot.com/
http://www.davewritesbooks.com

Also, some looking around at the publisher of Dave D's book shows it to be Kunati Books ... and there's a link about all their woes here: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29961

So is Derek Armstrong who used to run Kunati also Dave Byron ... the MO seems remarkably similar to me.

David
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: Paul Campbell on October 12, 2010, 05:06:54 PM
Good grief; as if the toils of the small press for you guys wasn't bad enough, without the detritus of human society dragging the whole venture down.

On a related note, I NEVER order from the US, with the sole exception of the charity http://www.betterworldbooks.com

Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: joshua rainbird on November 14, 2010, 12:49:03 AM
it's worth checking out Piers Anthony's website database before subbing to anthologies or ordering obscure books from the States:

http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html#K1 

I think he originally set it up to caution new writers about dodgy presses   :)
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: RossWarren on December 08, 2010, 07:12:01 PM
There is a story with that byline in the latest issue:-

http://darkvalentine.net/index.php/2010/12/welcome-winter-with-a-new-issue-of-dark-valentine/
Title: Re: Dave Boyer / Iron Dave / Dan Byron / Dave Byron - A Warning
Post by: DavidJHowe on December 09, 2010, 08:20:57 AM
Dave Boyer's exploits are now on Writers Beware in a good summary by Victoria Strauss:
http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2010/10/cold-iron-david-boyer-plagiarist.html

David